Since my last post on the subject, Bryan Caplan has put up two very interesting posts over at EconLog about the distinction between the deserving and undeserving poor.  The issue is this: is there a genuine distinction to be made between the poor who deserve our help and the poor who do not?  If so, should our private philanthropic activities attempt to reflect that distinction?  Should our government's public policies?

The discussion began with Bryan noting that libertarians are more willing than most to make a distinction between the deserving and the undeserving poor, and that this might be one factor that leads people (falsely) to believe that libertarians are "callous."  I responded by saying that there are good reasons to believe that the distinction is a valid one, but that even so it might not be one that we want our public policies to reflect.  

Bryan thinks that distinguishing the deserving from the undeserving poor is relatively easy, or at least "no harder than a thousand other moral distinctions we routinely make."  The deserving poor, he goes onto say, are those who are poor through no fault of their own, and they include "children whose parents can't or won't take care of them" and "severely handicapped adults."  The undeserving poor  - those who are poor by their own fault – are those who could find work but choose not to because it is unpleasant, those who lose their jobs for "tardiness, absenteeism, or insubordination," and those who abuse alcohol and drugs. 

Furthermore, he says,  even if the distinction between the deserving and undeserving poor is difficult to draw, this counts against "forced charity" i.e. tax-funded redistribution.  Taxation is coercive, and there is a strong moral presumption against coercion.  Bryan writes: "'Any morally reasonable person would agree that I'm forcing you to help the deserving poor'  at least arguably overcomes this presumption.  'Who knows whether the people I'm forcing you to help are deserving?' does not."

I'll address the question of force later.  For now, let's take Bryan's point about the ease of making the distinction.  It's important to distinguish between two kinds of problem we might have in making it.  The first is a problem in specifying the criteria that are to serve as the basis of the distinction.  The second is a problem in determining when some particular individual meets those criteria.  Bryan's claim that it's relatively easy to make the distinction is based on his belief that the first of these problems isn't all that serious, but he doesn't address the second at all.  Even if we agree that someone is deserving if they had bad parents, and undeserving if they're lazy, it's not easy at all to tell which of these to is the dominant cause of a particular person's poverty.  Not without a lot of background information on the person's life, and even then weighing the significance of the numerous causal factors and determining their interrelation can be difficult.  And, of course, even the first problem is not as simple as Bryan makes it out to be.  What are we to say, for instance, of someone whose absenteeism is due largely to genetic factors and to factors relating to their early childhood environment?  There are difficult questions at the intersection of philosophy and psychology here about what we ought to count as being within or outside a person's control.

Another area of dispute between Bryan and I concerns the relative moral significance of false positives vs. false negatives in identifying the deserving poor.  To explain: in trying to identify the deserving poor, there are two kinds of errors we might make.  We could identify someone as deserving who is not (false positive), or we could identify someone as undeserving who in fact is deserving (false negative).  I claimed that attempts to reduce false positives will likely increase the incidence of false negatives, and that most plausible moral views will hold that false negatives are moral morally troubling than false positives.  In other words, it's worse for someone who deserves your help to not get it, than it is for someone who doesn't deserve your help to get it.  Think of the criminal justice system as an analogy.  Most of us think that finding someone guilty who isn't is much more troubling than finding someone innocent who is guilty.  And our institutions reflect this judgment by incorporating a variety of factors (such as high burdens of proof on the prosecution) that make false positives less likely, even at the cost of increasing the likelihood of false negatives.

Bryan Caplan is not convinced.  Bryan thinks that (1) most of us do not apply this standard to our own behavior when, say, deciding whether to give a beggar money, (2) it is reasonable for us not to apply this standard to our own behavior, given the costs involved in gaining the information necessary to more consistently avoid false negatives , (3) there is no reason for government to be held to a different standard than individuals in this respect, and (4) even if false negatives are worse than false positives, it's still hard to defend forcing taxpayers to pay more in order to avoid this evil.

In response to (1), Bryan might be right.  Reflection on the Wason Selection Task suggests that we have evolved to care a lot and be very good at detecting cheaters – people who try to take a piece of the social pie without doing the necessary work.  We don't care so much about people who contribute to social goods but don't get the benefit they deserve.  People like that aren't a threat to us, even if their situation is unfortunate in some sense.  So false positives probably bother us a lot more than false negatives in a wide range of social contexts.  Even still, I think that there are a lot of distracting factors that weigh in to our decision of whether or not to help a street beggar.  There are a lot of such persons asking for our help, there are many others who could provide the help, we might have certain background beliefs of the people who seek help in that way rather than by, say, going to a church, and so on.  So it's not clear that it's the false positive / false negative distinction that's really doing the work in Bryan's example.

As for (2), Bryan's response seems to assume that the only way to avoid false negatives is to gather more information in order to more accurately determine desert.  But the analogy with the criminal law above shows that this isn't the case.  Another way to reduce false negatives is to be more tolerant of false positives.  Suppose you have 10 people asking you for a nickel, 5 of whom are undeserving and 5 of whom are deserving.  Sure, you could launch an inquiry to determine who's who.  But if each false positive only costs you 5 cents, maybe the most cost-effective and least intrusive way of reducing false-negatives is simply to give a nickel to everyone.  This, I take it, is part of the argument for a basic income, as I've discussed elsewhere.

(3) doesn't sound right either.  One reason we might not care much about false negatives as individuals is that we believe there is a safety net in place that will catch anybody we miss.  But if government is that safety net, then government needs to be much more cautious than we do.  Additionally, government might have reasons relating to political legitimacy for ensuring that its rules provide everyone with the opportunity to live a good or decent life.  This would give governments extra reason to avoid false negatives that would not apply to individuals.

Finally, Bryan is certainly right to claim that there is a presumption against the use of force.  But what it takes to overcome that presumption depends on your moral priors.  If you believe very confidently that people have a strong moral claim to their current holdings, then it will take a correspondingly strong consideration to override the presumption against taking their income by force and redistributing it to others.  If, on the other hand, you believe that people's current holdings are significantly illegitimate (perhaps because they arose from past acts of injustice) then the burden will be lower.  Similarly, if you believe that it is a moral obligation for the government to serve as the safety net of last resort for the deserving poor, you might indeed think that the mere possibility that someone might be deserving will be sufficient to overcome the justificatory burden.  Finally, even if it's clearly true that there's a presumption against the use of force, it seems equally clear that the strength of this presumption depends on the severity and kind of force that's being used.  As much as libertarians like to say that "taxation is theft," most of us think (as Tyler Cowen has recently pointed out) that there is a difference between a burglar breaking into your house and taking your TV, and the government increasing the marginal tax rate by 1%.  And there's probably a difference between the government's increasing the marginal tax rate by 1% and its increasing it by 10%.  Context matters.

This post is probably too long already.  But I can't in good conscience submit a post on welfare-related issues to this blog without mentioning Daniel Shapiro's excellent book on this subject.  He knows much more about this subject than I, and probably disagrees with some of what I've said here.  Perhaps if we all ask him nicely he'll chime in with a post of his own on the issue!

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  • Aeon J. Skoble

    “As much as libertarians like to say that “taxation is theft,” most of us think… that there is a difference between a burglar breaking into your house and taking your TV, and the government increasing the marginal tax rate by 1%”

    But as philosophers, we can recognize when intuitions go wrong. The fact that most people think there’s a difference doesn’t mean there is a difference. What philosophy can do is show that although it seems like they are different, this is fraught with error, and they are more alike than they are different. E.g., one might think that “one entails violence or the threat thereof, but the other doesn’t” but that’s false. One might think “one is consensual but the other is not” but that’s false. One might think that “one deprives me of something to which I am entitled but the other does not” but that’s false. I’m hard pressed to think of a way in which they’re different that’s not superficial.

  • Ryan P

    Just a small comment, but I don’t think uncertainty over desert is necessarily an argument for a basic income. A utilitarian motivation pushes for redistribution by lump sum, certainly, but depending on the specification, a desert theory may argue more for an EITC (negative marginal rates but no lump sum transfer) sort of thing. E.g., some people are deserving poor — they work hard but through no fault of their own, they receive little compensation, so you might want to “top up” to transfer more to those who try than to those who don’t.

  • http://aaronmclin.blogspot.com/ Aaron

    My basic issue with the whole exercise of “the distinction between the deserving and undeserving poor,” is that it’s primary motivation seems to be say that the difference between people I like (find morally acceptable) and people I dislike (find morally lacking) can be constructed in such a way that it has nothing whatsoever to do with me, which I find to be false. Perhaps it’s just me, but I have yet to find a workable purely objective system of morality – one that could, in effect, be administered by a machine.

    As for taxation being indistinguishable from theft, I’ve never bought into that argument – mainly because I do not believe in the idea of a “free standing right.” In other words, all rights come with responsibilities, and we are not always in a position to dictate that those responsibilities must be limited to things that we agree to do. I find the argument that certain rights can’t be given up to be specious. Certain rights might be a remarkable amount of work to give up, or the end result might be very undesirable, but that’s life – you can’t always get what you want, and not having the choices you feel you’re entitled to is different than not having choices at all.

    Note this is different than value for money or other concerns – I can steal from you by casting simple graft or corruption as the obligation needed to secure certain rights, but that does not mean that the very idea that rights come with responsibilities, and sometimes those responsibilities might be financial, is suspect.

  • Jeff R.

    This is another place where there’s a strong obstacle to a liberaltarian alliance: far too many liberals have, directly, second-hand, or through some form of ideological osmosis, contracted the truly awful and utterly abhorrent to libertarianism concept of ‘luck egalitarianism’

  • http://profile.typepad.com/danielshapiro Daniel Shapiro

    Well Matt since you asked so nicely, I will make a shot at doing a post on this soon!

  • http://blog.hecker.org/ Frank Hecker

    Jeff R: Please forgive my lack of knowledge here (I’m familiar with the concept but not with the term until now, and certainly not with the literature on it): Based on my layman’s understanding of “luck egalitarianism” I don’t hold with it either, but it’s not clear to me what the most compelling arguments are against the idea. Could you or others provide some pointers to further reading?

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p0147e2f357f9970b Matt Zwolinski

    Aeon – Sure, intuitions can go wrong. But I’m not convinced that they have in this case. And I’m sure you can come up with some non-superficial ways in which they’re different, if you tried. Is it really entirely irrelevant that taxes are instituted by a democratic government, acting in accordance with the rule of law, rather than a thief acting on his own? Is it really entirely irrelevant that a small increase in taxes limits your effective ability to do what you want to do much less than a large increase in taxes – or a case of outright theft? Maybe you think these don’t matter enough, but surely they count for something.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/theotherchuckd TheOtherChuckD

    I’m hard pressed to think of a way in which [taxes and theft are] different that’s not superficial.

    I have one: The U.S. does not have exit visas. You are free to leave at any time and find some place that won’t tax you. By being a part of this polity, you have agreed to abide by the choices made by the elected representatives of voters.

    It may sound flip, but it’s central to the legitimacy of taxation: nobody’s stopping you from going somewhere they won’t make you pay taxes.

  • Hyena

    I think the obvious response to (3) is that individuals often lack the resources necessary to complete certain tasks. For example, if I build a homebrew tablet computer I will probably get a mention on BoingBoing and possibly a MAKE article despite its flaws. Heaven help Apple if the iPad 3 is as poorly made.

    So we do distinguish between individuals and organizations and have different expectations of them. We have these expectations because we reasonably expect groups of individuals carrying out specialized tasks in concert will be more effective than an individual trying to do it all. That Caplan would reject the division of labor is rather startling.

    I also find his 19th century morality rather mystifying in light of his 21st century vision of genetic determinism. I wonder how he reconciles that dissonance or whether it’s time to take the Hansonian fork and say his positions aren’t about truth….

  • John

    The knowledge problem is huge in the determination deserving versus underserving. That said, I’m not sure deserving is the real issue.

    Arron seems to be raising question of just how much we might be dealing with what Tyler called fallacy of mood.

    I wonder if point 1 is correct. I do consider that when handing out money, or some other gift to the “needy”. It’s not really the primary factor for me. I think we need to make a distinction between individual and social helping. I think most personal efforts are driven more from a motive of charity rather than justice. Let’s face it, if we’re going to be just to those in need get them a job, don’t just give them 5 bucks. The question that then follows for me is if social programs are charity or justice? I tend to think they will be charity and not justice so desert doesn’t really matter.

    Maybe putting it a bit differently, can we have a just society without mercy and charity?

  • Matt

    “I’m hard pressed to think of a way in which [taxes and theft are] different that’s not superficial.”

    If you are lucky enough to be born into an system/environment that allows the possibility of creating vast wealth, it only seems fair to contribute something to maintain that system for the benefit of others.

    Frankly, I find the whole concept of ‘desert’ bizarre for this point:

    “What are we to say, for instance, of someone whose absenteeism is due largely to genetic factors and to factors relating to their early childhood environment?”

    Everyone’s personality, including the tendency to be hard-working, lazy, intelligent, stupid, etc, is derived from genetic and environmental factors. It is not as people choose to be brought up in an environment that is not conducive to the development of a hardworking personality. And hence, every decision made is a consequence of a personality that people did not choose.

    It is nonsense to talk of desert, *other than* as a means to promoting an environment or culture that encourages the development of desirable personality traits. Thus, we can condemn someone’s absenteeism without meaning the person in question *deserves* the condemnation, but rather as a means of sending out a signal (i.e an environmental factor) that absenteeism is not a desirable characteristic.

  • Aeon J. Skoble

    Matt Z: “Is it really entirely irrelevant that taxes are instituted by a democratic government, acting in accordance with the rule of law, rather than a thief acting on his own?”

    Built into this question is the assumption that majority rule legitimates rights violations, and that any law passed by extant procedures is just. I’m not convinced that these are true.

    “Is it really entirely irrelevant that a small increase in taxes limits your effective ability to do what you want to do much less than a large increase in taxes – or a case of outright theft?”

    I don’t know that that’s true either. They may indeed be functionally identical: the tax increase may be the reason why I can’t afford a flat screen TV that I’d otherwise buy, so in both cases I don’t get a flat screen tv.

    @Other Matt: “If you are lucky enough to be born into an system/environment that allows the possibility of creating vast wealth, it only seems fair to contribute something to maintain that system for the benefit of others”

    I do, by my buying and selling. Trade _is_ wealth creation.

    @The other Chuck D: More implicit force. If I claim that the majority has no right to violate rights, your response is “leave or we’ll kill you”? I didn’t consent to the current tax code, nor to the vast expansion of federal power that necessitates it. “If you don’t like it, leave” is just bulliyng, that’s not an argument.

  • Mark

    Aeon, I can’t imagine a more boring discussion to have here than whether majority rule legitimates putative rights violations. Everybody here can probably predict with 99% accuracy exactly what you’re going to say about that topic, because you’re going to say exactly the same stuff that has already been said hundreds of times by hundreds of other libertarians.

    Now: The question is not whether taxation is just, the question is whether it is distinguishable from burglary. And I think that even if you hold that both such things are violations of your rights, you still ought to be able to see that they are very very different kinds of violations of your rights. Different enough that any philosophy that completely conflates the two is probably overly simplistic.

    And, if you can restrain yourself from sermonizing for a few minutes, you might be able to appreciate that because of the stark difference between the two, a reasonable person might come to the conclusion that one is less unjust than the other, or even that one is just and the other is not. No one’s asking you to *agree* with that person. But please just give the principle of charity a try.

    I apologize for my strident tone, but I’m really frustrated with how the comments section on this blog has turned out just like the comments section on every other libertarian blog: A place for people to expound ad infinitum upon the same old “No Force, No Fraud” philosophy. Which is a fine philosophy, just give it a rest. We’ve all heard it and understand it.

    I like that the authors here are exploring *new* ideas in libertarianism. Let’s give those new ideas some room to breath before beating them to death with our Rothbardian clubs.

  • Aeon J. Skoble

    @Mark- nice non-apology. I’m not beating anyone to death or sermonizing – Matt raised an issue and I gave a response. I am not even commenting on every thread, so I don’t know why you’re singling me out for criticism. If Matt asks me to stop posting, I will; it’s his house.

  • Myca

    Aeon, think of it this way. America is a club, with a membership fee.

    It’s a club dedicated to wealth creation. Members of this club get access to an infrastructure and institutional support that allows for better wealth creation than most similar ‘clubs’ around the world, but as part of that, the club charges a fee.

    Now, the good news is, the fee charged varies with how well the club’s methods have worked for the wealth creation of the individual … they only start charging larger fees when the club’s program is really successful for someone.

    And, if it turns out that you don’t like your membership, you’re free to leave the club at any time! The only thing you can’t do is take advantage of the infrastructure, security, and programs the club offers without paying your membership fee. You can’t be a free rider, in other words.

  • http://www.psychopolitik.com b-psycho

    My own view on taxation lately is that within a “representative” government it shades into fraud more than theft. A thief takes from you for their own benefit openly, while with fraud you’re being told you are trading money for a service — one that is deliberately not properly satisfied. The moral equivalence between the two is because in the case of fraud, if you knew in advance you wouldn’t get what was promised you would never allow the transaction to take place. On the other hand, if your service was going to be everything it was advertised as, then you’d have no problem with paying for it willingly.

    The “representative” state, in my opinion, really only fulfills its promise to a narrow cultural & economic elite. When it comes to defending property & rights, for that elite government goes well above and beyond the call to even defending ill-gotten gains and granting them powers that no regular person could expect to wield. If you’re below that elite…”sure, you can trust us, hand it over *wink wink*”, then when your money ends up in the pockets of the aforementioned elite the broker acts like he has no idea what happened.

  • Aeon J. Skoble

    Myca-I don’t see how I can be obligated by having received benefits I didn’t ask for. Say I come over to your house in the middle of the night and wash your car, then the next morning I say “ok, you owe me 50 bucks for the work I did.” Is “owe” correct here? I don’t think so. I like clubs that don’t compel membership, and I like the idea of paying for services I use. If you want to force me to accept benefits I didn’t ask you to provide, and then claim I am indebted to you for providing them, you’ll need to explain that with a different metaphor.

  • geoih

    Quote from Myca: “Aeon, think of it this way. America is a club, with a membership fee.”

    Myca, think of it this way: America is a prison and you will follow all the rules set by the most powerful faction presently in power, as well as all the factions in power in the past, or you will be killed. You may leave, but we will confiscate all of your wealth first. If you try to evade this confiscation, we will pursue you to the ends of the Earth.

    I guess the analogy you prefer all depends on how much of a statist you are.

  • John

    Aeon, two comments.
    1) I think you jump past the inheritance issue too quickly. Why do you get to keep what you want to ignore what you don’t. Doesn’t the property (liked) and the rules (not liked) come to you as a package? Note, this is not the same as you just showing up one night without any existing expectations/precedence/traditions and claiming $50 for washing the car.

    2) I have started to think about the situation as one of a highly complex joint production process or wealth creation. The question of where the source of the productivity lies is difficult to establish and I don’t think existing labor markets get it exactly right; nor do I think perfectly free labor markets will get it exactly right either. In such a setting I don’t see why it’s unreasonable to expect those getting the most from their life in society pay more than those getting very little from it. This may or may not justify progressive marginal tax rates. I think it does suggest that some portion of the total wealth created be, for lack of a better phrase, put to social use. I also think this implies that some minimal share in the total wealth should accrue to a person before they have any obligation to support society.

    geoih – depending on the point one wants to make preferences might be useful in selecting analogy. I’m not sure what’s gaining, or even accurate, in you prison alternative to Myca’s club. Myca was ignoring the entry event and that was Aeon’s criticism. I’m not sure what you’re criticizing.

  • Myca

    Aeon – I think that this is where we discuss childhood, a period in which you learn the rules of the club, bear few of the costs, and receive only a limited set of the club benefits.

    It’s a trial membership, and it’s well understood when a full membership will accrue and what it will entail.

    Rather than a man coming in the night, washing your car, and demanding $50, I think it’s far more analogous to a neighborhood which has contracted with a car-washing service.

    That is, you know up front that if you live there, your car will be washed, and you know roughly what it will cost. There are no secrets or surprises. You get a trial period in which you learn the rules. You get an opportunity to decide to live elsewhere.

    If, granting all of that, your car is washed, and you are billed $50 … well, it’s hard to muster much sympathy.

    After all, there’s a reason, “I won’t move out, but I refuse to pay my share of rent,” isn’t a very stirring rallying cry.

  • geoih

    Quote from Myca: “After all, there’s a reason, “I won’t move out, but I refuse to pay my share of rent,” isn’t a very stirring rallying cry.”

    Yes, it’s because it’s not an analogy for what you’re trying to say is reality.

    What you’re actually saying is “We’ve decided that we own your property and will decide unilaterally what you have to do to be allowed to stay.”

    It has nothing to do with “rents” or “memberships”, because those are voluntary agreements. It’s confiscation through coercion, plain and simple.

  • Myca

    Geoih, I’m happy to discuss my ideas, and I think Aegon has some good and interesting points. I think that John does as well. I don’t think you have made any good or interesting points. I think you’ve cut and pasted some standard boilerplate. Some of the cut-and pasted boilerplate isn’t even true.

    The crux of my argument is that there are arrangements much like the governmental arrangement that exist (or might reasonably exist) as a matter of private initiative, and that Libertarians generally find these arrangements unproblematic.

    Furthermore, I think that our arrangement with the government is much more voluntary than Libertarians generally credit. It’s essentially, “If you keep living here and reaping the benefits, you’ll be expected to contribute to the upkeep.”

    I don’t think that the cost of changing government/location or the absence of cost-free alternatives is very persuasive either, in terms of determining how voluntary things are. The cost of changing jobs can often be quite high, and those arrangements are counted voluntary, and the fact that nobody will give you a corned beef sandwich for free doesn’t make it somehow involuntary when you buy it.

  • John

    Myca, you’re correct that cost isn’t the determinant of voluntariness. I think it’s more likely that we can presume in the private exchanges each side is getting their just deserts.

    In the case of the social “exchange” it’s not that clear. In these cases it’s very relevant to consider the cost of changing the social “exchange” so that those not getting their just deserts can redefine the terms towards a more just outcome.

  • http://aaronmclin.blogspot.com/ Aaron

    I think it’s more likely that we can presume in the private exchanges each side is getting their just deserts.

    Isn’t that a heck of a presumption? What is is based on? There seems to me to be a certain faith in human nature that a strain of Libertarianism is based on that doesn’t seem to be in evidence in the world as I see it. For instance, in the FAQ for the Minnesota Libertarian Party, it’s asserted that you can fund law enforcement from moneys confiscated from lawbreakers. The screwed-up incentives that this would create seem pretty obvious to me, but no mention of them is made.

    I understand the idea that “Well, there’s never been a ‘real’ Libertarian society before, so you can’t say that it won’t work,” but when that society seems to be based on the idea that everyone would play be the rules if only government weren’t there, I’m dubious.

  • Myca

    Myca, you’re correct that cost isn’t the determinant of voluntariness. I think it’s more likely that we can presume in the private exchanges each side is getting their just deserts.

    Why would we assume this?

    I have no hard science on this (of course), but I’d wager that the number of people in the US who feel trapped in their jobs is greater then the number who feel trapped in the country.

    If we’re taking satisfaction as a measure of just deserts and ‘voluntariness,’ then it certainly seems likely that hte government is doign better than private industry here.

    These are assumptions, of course, but at this point, that’s what we’re discussing, right?

    —Myca

  • John

    The presumption comes from the claimed voluntary nature.

    Do they feel trapped in the job or trapped in working?

    I’m not really suggesting satisfaction as the measure of desert but rather a personal appraisal. I was trying to tie things back to the original topic. Though it was a very stressed effort, I’m not too comfortable we have the ability to evaluate our own deserts from a justice point of view.

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